As one of the more relentless poachers of my generation, I have one element of pushback:
It's very hard to generate turnovers, and oftentimes you need to basically need to give yourself a 2% advantage over hundreds of throws to get that 1 extra turnover you need. Consistently pushing the offense into "2nd Choice Throws" - by playing tight person D - can be successful.
Hmm, reading your comment it's not totally clear to me whether we're fully on the same page with what I was trying to say. What did you think of the last section about why I don't like the term "poach"?
If the defense is giving up "easy" throws or "1st Choice Throws" I don't think they're really playing defense the way I envision. Even positional, "not always tight" defense involves playing tight to deny active threats—there's just so many moments when the person you're guarding *isn't* an active threat.
Or to think about it another way, yes, you might be able to get a 2% advantage by playing tight defense, but positional D generates the same 2% (or more?) advantage another way -- i.e. by making *every* throw more dangerous because every passing lane is more clogged and every defender is more "heads up" watching for random opportunities.
Great insight as always. The "you want to be standing as far as the player you guard" is super smart. Offense wants a large effective playing space (EPS) defense wants to make it narrow or to clogg it.
I would also add one thing, the objective varies depending on where the disc is. In their endzone or in their half and close to a sideline, you want to put pressure on the disc holder to maximize your chances of getting the disc back as you are not going to get better chances. In the midfield, you want to slow the offense down. A slower offense means defense do not have to ply catch up and can go for smarter moves. In front of your endzone, you want to avoid giving a score on a silver plate. These are core ideas of the Triad we propose in our book.
I'll definitely add the concepts you mention here in our next clinic. Thank you!
And I definitely think we should see more teams clog the middle then get aggressive on the sideline.
I don't like to pay for frisbee stuff (and I post my blogs for free in exchange) but if you ever want to send me a free copy of your book I'd definitely read it :)
As one of the more relentless poachers of my generation, I have one element of pushback:
It's very hard to generate turnovers, and oftentimes you need to basically need to give yourself a 2% advantage over hundreds of throws to get that 1 extra turnover you need. Consistently pushing the offense into "2nd Choice Throws" - by playing tight person D - can be successful.
Hmm, reading your comment it's not totally clear to me whether we're fully on the same page with what I was trying to say. What did you think of the last section about why I don't like the term "poach"?
If the defense is giving up "easy" throws or "1st Choice Throws" I don't think they're really playing defense the way I envision. Even positional, "not always tight" defense involves playing tight to deny active threats—there's just so many moments when the person you're guarding *isn't* an active threat.
Or to think about it another way, yes, you might be able to get a 2% advantage by playing tight defense, but positional D generates the same 2% (or more?) advantage another way -- i.e. by making *every* throw more dangerous because every passing lane is more clogged and every defender is more "heads up" watching for random opportunities.
Great insight as always. The "you want to be standing as far as the player you guard" is super smart. Offense wants a large effective playing space (EPS) defense wants to make it narrow or to clogg it.
I would also add one thing, the objective varies depending on where the disc is. In their endzone or in their half and close to a sideline, you want to put pressure on the disc holder to maximize your chances of getting the disc back as you are not going to get better chances. In the midfield, you want to slow the offense down. A slower offense means defense do not have to ply catch up and can go for smarter moves. In front of your endzone, you want to avoid giving a score on a silver plate. These are core ideas of the Triad we propose in our book.
I'll definitely add the concepts you mention here in our next clinic. Thank you!
Thanks! Yeah I agree about the sideline, I've been thinking about that a lot lately, too. I liked Ian's post on Traps and Triggers:
https://bettereverydaycoaching.substack.com/p/pressing-traps-and-triggers
And I definitely think we should see more teams clog the middle then get aggressive on the sideline.
I don't like to pay for frisbee stuff (and I post my blogs for free in exchange) but if you ever want to send me a free copy of your book I'd definitely read it :)