I also step off on force side throws sometimes. I’ve gotten a few handblocks doing that because it gives me time to get there. More importantly, it gives me the position to recover to give gos.
I think "a little farther away" I suggest in that article and the "reasonably tight" I suggest in this article are meant to be the same distance! I like being maybe 2-3 disc lengths away, I don't think there's much benefit to being, say, 0.5 disc lengths away, and I think sagging too much more than that isn't my favorite for the reasons laid out in this article.
I'm not sure I follow about stepping off on force side throws and getting handblocks, what do you mean exactly? Wouldn't you just be giving up the entire break side if you suddenly step off & to the force side?
I think stepping off is definitely a little exploitative of a strategy, and you do concede more around than if you didn’t step off. I’m not dropping completely into the force side lane more so the inside lane with a hand in the force side lane. Im usually able to limit damage from a yardage gaining around when I do that still.
Yep, I see what you're saying. RiseUps triangle really operates in a world where throwers look downfield for 6-7 seconds before eventually squaring up - something that is rarely seen now that early throws and flow are the priority for most teams.
Sagging off for initial flat marks is a very useful tool, particularly to offset hucks in flow. Colombia's Women have been doing this for years as have many others I'm sure.
The Pod Practice episode with Dena Elimelech is a really good insight into how the very best players and teams are playing D - Anna Thompson is incredible to watch.
I also like Jonny Malks video on the mark in terms of how to position to get hand/foot blocks - but still mostly ignore the jump back part.
Speaking of marking, I remember there's a moment in that episode where Dena (I think) lays out while marking but the thrower was just pump faking. The offense doesn't really find a way to take advantage of it, though, which I think is a missed opportunity. I'm generally a fan of not over-committing on the mark. I have the impression that there are more point blocks in the women's division than in the open division, though I'm not sure why exactly that is.
I don’t follow that prescriptive of a marking pattern, but I do backup sometimes.
You mention here that you need to be a little farther away to take in as much perceptual information https://open.substack.com/pub/someflow/p/how-to-get-handblocks-like-john-mcdonnell?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web . Too close makes it easy for the mark to step through you too.
I also step off on force side throws sometimes. I’ve gotten a few handblocks doing that because it gives me time to get there. More importantly, it gives me the position to recover to give gos.
I think "a little farther away" I suggest in that article and the "reasonably tight" I suggest in this article are meant to be the same distance! I like being maybe 2-3 disc lengths away, I don't think there's much benefit to being, say, 0.5 disc lengths away, and I think sagging too much more than that isn't my favorite for the reasons laid out in this article.
I'm not sure I follow about stepping off on force side throws and getting handblocks, what do you mean exactly? Wouldn't you just be giving up the entire break side if you suddenly step off & to the force side?
2-3 seems very reasonable.
I think stepping off is definitely a little exploitative of a strategy, and you do concede more around than if you didn’t step off. I’m not dropping completely into the force side lane more so the inside lane with a hand in the force side lane. Im usually able to limit damage from a yardage gaining around when I do that still.
Yep, I see what you're saying. RiseUps triangle really operates in a world where throwers look downfield for 6-7 seconds before eventually squaring up - something that is rarely seen now that early throws and flow are the priority for most teams.
Sagging off for initial flat marks is a very useful tool, particularly to offset hucks in flow. Colombia's Women have been doing this for years as have many others I'm sure.
The Pod Practice episode with Dena Elimelech is a really good insight into how the very best players and teams are playing D - Anna Thompson is incredible to watch.
I also like Jonny Malks video on the mark in terms of how to position to get hand/foot blocks - but still mostly ignore the jump back part.
I definitely watched that Dena Elimelech pod episode though I don't remember all the details. I did write about Fury's defense too a while back:
https://someflow.substack.com/p/furys-defense-will-ignore-your-weakest
Speaking of marking, I remember there's a moment in that episode where Dena (I think) lays out while marking but the thrower was just pump faking. The offense doesn't really find a way to take advantage of it, though, which I think is a missed opportunity. I'm generally a fan of not over-committing on the mark. I have the impression that there are more point blocks in the women's division than in the open division, though I'm not sure why exactly that is.