Another banger LT. This tendency to over pursue, get punished, and then declare "Great effort" with no thoughtful analysis of what went wrong is most prounced for me on the goaltimate field. In the mid field defenders often overcommit and leave the goal wide open. Because of how many reps you get in goaltimate it becomes painfully clear how often this happens if you are watching closely. I think you are calling out a real weakness lots of even high level players have and a weird cultural thing that exists in ultimate that is praised but in other sports we call it "getting burned" lol.
I agree with your point here. And I have a question…
As you know, getting blocks against good offenses (less likely to turn the disc on their own) is extra impactful. So trying to force a turn, like a layout block or poach block attempt, often involves a level of risk. As a coach, I’m considering a cue to give players… Like you need to be __% confident that you’ll get the block. What do you think?
If they wait until they’re 100% confident, they might hardly ever get blocks against good offenses.
Obviously, the less experienced the player, the more they’ll need to try through trial and error to learn what they’re actually capable of.
1. Like you said, if the players are inexperienced enough, then it's definitely going to be a process of trial & error, and we should encourage that. And hopefully there are chances to be extra experimental in practice and then dial it back a bit and play your "most effective frisbee given your current skill set" in games https://someflow.substack.com/p/balancing-individual-growth-and-winning
2. In the big picture, I tend to believe that people *think* frisbee offenses are better than they actually are partly because frisbee defenses aren't where they should be. It's not surprising offenses look good when the best defensive strategy most teams have is "stay as close as possible to one person on the other team".
3. And that's especially true if your players are young! if they're young enough that *they* are still learning to find the right opportunities to lay out, I'm sure they're also young enough that opposing offenses will make more than enough mistakes on their own if you play smart patient defense, even the "good" opposing offenses.
4. Overall, if it was me, I would probably not fill in the blank in your comment. And instead just make sure to explain the trade-offs and encourage experimenting. I don't think there's a specific percentage...and it might be better teaching method anyway to not give them the answer ("coach said 80%, so it's 80% and I never have to think again!") but just help them understand the question they're wrestling with.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DSXPdEOiq8-/?igsh=MWRvanZmZHEwd2Yycw==
This clip from the SEA games supports your case
Primum non nocere !
Can't believe I was plagiarizing the ancient Greeks in my ultimate frisbee essay 😄
Well innovation mainly stems from doing connection between apparently unrelated fields :) good essay as always though !
Another banger LT. This tendency to over pursue, get punished, and then declare "Great effort" with no thoughtful analysis of what went wrong is most prounced for me on the goaltimate field. In the mid field defenders often overcommit and leave the goal wide open. Because of how many reps you get in goaltimate it becomes painfully clear how often this happens if you are watching closely. I think you are calling out a real weakness lots of even high level players have and a weird cultural thing that exists in ultimate that is praised but in other sports we call it "getting burned" lol.
Thanks! Yeah I've definitely had similar conversations when discussing goaltie...
I really enjoy your articles.
I agree with your point here. And I have a question…
As you know, getting blocks against good offenses (less likely to turn the disc on their own) is extra impactful. So trying to force a turn, like a layout block or poach block attempt, often involves a level of risk. As a coach, I’m considering a cue to give players… Like you need to be __% confident that you’ll get the block. What do you think?
If they wait until they’re 100% confident, they might hardly ever get blocks against good offenses.
Obviously, the less experienced the player, the more they’ll need to try through trial and error to learn what they’re actually capable of.
Good question, I have lots of thoughts here.
1. Like you said, if the players are inexperienced enough, then it's definitely going to be a process of trial & error, and we should encourage that. And hopefully there are chances to be extra experimental in practice and then dial it back a bit and play your "most effective frisbee given your current skill set" in games https://someflow.substack.com/p/balancing-individual-growth-and-winning
2. In the big picture, I tend to believe that people *think* frisbee offenses are better than they actually are partly because frisbee defenses aren't where they should be. It's not surprising offenses look good when the best defensive strategy most teams have is "stay as close as possible to one person on the other team".
3. And that's especially true if your players are young! if they're young enough that *they* are still learning to find the right opportunities to lay out, I'm sure they're also young enough that opposing offenses will make more than enough mistakes on their own if you play smart patient defense, even the "good" opposing offenses.
4. Overall, if it was me, I would probably not fill in the blank in your comment. And instead just make sure to explain the trade-offs and encourage experimenting. I don't think there's a specific percentage...and it might be better teaching method anyway to not give them the answer ("coach said 80%, so it's 80% and I never have to think again!") but just help them understand the question they're wrestling with.