The disc doesn't need to stay flat

Helping bury an old myth

You don't need to keep the disc flat when you throw. Hopefully this is not news to many of you. I originally didn't plan to write this article because Kyle Weisbrod already said it quite well eight years ago on Ultiworld, in The Forehand: Part I.

But I'm going to write it anyway, because I want to do my part to put another nail in the coffin of the myth that we need to keep the disc flat. A player on my team said to me a few weeks ago, "someone told me that it's weird that I don't keep the disc flat when I throw—what do you think?". So clearly this myth hasn't completely died, not in all corners of the frisbee community.

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The proof

As Weisbrod points out in his article, Ben Wiggins himself doesn't keep the disc flat, even while telling others to in a RISE UP ultimate video that's now been viewed over 100,000 times.

Left is how he explains the forehand, right is how he actually throws when not giving a slow-motion explainer.

Let's look at a few other elite ultimate players preparing to throw forehands. Ultiworld's 2023 Club awards came out earlier this month, and I could write this whole article using only examples from their awards.

Here's Owen Westbrook, handler for national title winner shame. in the mixed division:

Here's Linda Morse of Philadelphia AMP:

Mixed division Breakout Player of the Year Rory Veldman:

This next one breaks the mold by not actually being a picture from the Ultiworld article, but here's a year-old picture of 2023 Mixed Offensive Player of the Year Travis Dunn:

This looked so much like he was throwing a hammer that I started to doubt myself. So I went back to the highlight video, and was able to find what I’m pretty sure is the exact moment this photo was taken. You can even see the photographer there taking the photo! It's definitely a forehand flick being thrown (0:40 in the video):

Here's Boston DiG's Mac Hecht, 3rd place in men's Offensive POTY voting. His award blurb says he's "at home helming one of the top five offenses in the division", and has "field expanding range...and a flurry of mark shattering throws":

Here's Men's Offensive POTY Joe White:

OK, are you getting tired of this yet?

Last one, here's Jimmy Mickle, from Joe Marmerstein's Throwing Form Project (video here):

What I find notable about the above photo is that he's 10 frames away from releasing an inside-out forehand:

So it's not just vertical-to-flat — he's moving the disc from an extremely OI angle to an extremely IO angle in a fraction of a second.

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Why throw this way?

Most elite throwers start their forehand motion with the disc held more-or-less held vertically near their throwing shoulder. Why is this?

I don't feel like I have a *great* answer to this question, but I have two thoughts:

First, keeping the disc closer to your body allows you quicker access to your other throws. With the disc in this near-shoulder position, you can quickly throw a forehand. But you can also quickly transition to a backhand or a hammer, if needed. It may be possible to throw a flick more quickly if you start with the disc somewhere else—somewhere further away on the forehand side of your body. But then the defense could sell out to stop it because they know you can't quickly transition to a backhand.

Second, if you want powerful forehands, what needs to be wound up/drawn back is your elbow, not the disc itself (see my previous article, How to throw forehands using your elbow). Moving the disc less during the draw back portion of the throwing motion is just fine, as it'll still be drawn forward efficiently when the energy from your upper arm moves down into your forearm and wrist. That's admittedly a little vague, but I'm just spitballing anyway. It's not evidence that this motion is better, but it's at least evidence that this motion is still effective. Perhaps I'll explore this more in the future.

Disc golfers seem to use a "hold the disc back during the windup" style—see here, for example. And they can throw plenty far. To me that's a hint that my first hypothesis is closer to the truth—starting with the disc near your shoulder is not the only effective throwing motion, but it's the best given the trade-off of also needing quick access to your other throws.

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One final note, there's a theory in baseball that keeping your forearm closer to your body is a mechanically safer motion. They call it "forearm flyout"—see, for example, this YouTube video. I'm not convinced this is truly an issue. The idea that your forearm shouldn't go past 90 degrees suffers from the "nice, round number" fallacy (similar to the idea you need to keep your disc flat). But it's a connection worth sharing.

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It was always nonsensical, right?

The "keep the disc flat" theory never made sense to me, anyway. If you had to keep the disc flat, how would you throw an IO? Or an OI? How would you tilt the nose of the disc up slightly so it slows down nicely as it reaches the receiver?

If you want to throw an OI, are you supposed to first change the angle of the disc and only then start your throwing motion? Sounds quite inefficient. And how would you ever throw a hammer—which is just a forehand thrown at a different arm angle—if you had to keep the disc flat all the time?

From a physics perspective, the "flat disc" theory never held water, either. As we learned in high school physics class, the flight path of the disc is determined by its position (including angles) and speed (both forward and rotation speed) at the moment of release. What happened before that doesn't matter. As long as the disc has the appropriate state at the moment of release, it will follow the desired flight path.

There are perhaps some surface-level benefits to keeping the disc flat—it's a less complex motion. But simpler isn't always better, and athletes are plenty capable of learning complex motions. Look, for example, at the contortions baseball pitchers go through to make their throws as effective as possible.

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Final thoughts

As I said up top, I'm really not breaking any new ground with this post. But I did want to cover it quickly, to re-emphasize it and help a few more people learn that this myth is, in fact, a myth. Hopefully I've provided some extra value by taking a slightly different path than Kyle Weisbrod did—including lots of photos of elite throwers.

So next time you meet a "flat discer" send them to this article.