I'm not that good at throwing flicks

A confession, sorta

I've written a number of articles about forehand throwing form. So it might be worth pointing out that...I'm actually not that good at throwing forehands.

I'm not *bad* at them. But overall, my forehand throws are nothing special. I don't have the best flick out of the people I play pickup with—and some of the best players in my city don't even come to pickup.

There’s a common belief (see here, for example) that the best players don't always make the best coaches. Given I started playing ultimate late in life, I'll almost certainly never have a notably great flick compared to top players.

So are my theories on throwing flicks still trustworthy? I think so—here are a few random thoughts about me, my flicks, my playing style, and why I think my advice about throwing flicks is better than my flicks themselves are.

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I throw flicks with my bad hand

As I've mentioned before, I grew up playing sports left-handed. I've thrown right-handed flicks for as long as I've played frisbee (~7 years), but I'm not a natural righty. Someone who grew up playing sports with the same hand they still use has a larger base of throwing instinct/knowledge to transfer skills from.

I didn't have that background instinct for my right-handed flicks, so I've had to put in extra work just to catch up. My flicks aren't special compared to other great throwers, but they're pretty good given I'm technically throwing them with my 'bad' hand.

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I've see baseball mechanics coaches (see here) claim there's a "use it or lose it" period for throwing mechanics—for example, they claim you won't be able to rotate your shoulder as far back if you didn't start playing until after puberty.

My right arm more frequently gets sore after throwing workouts—it's hard to say if that's because I work it harder (i.e., I don't practice lefty flick hucks) or because it doesn't have the same throwing tendon strength my left arm does.

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I've always wondered if throwing with my bad hand will make my potential skill 'ceiling' lower for flicks. (Not that I mind—the ambidextrousness greatly raises my potential skill ceiling in other areas of throwing.) I still don’t have an answer to that question.

I’ve had thoughts about whether I should give up on being a righty and switch to throwing with my left hand full-time. My righty flick has never felt as comfortable as my lefty backhand. I’ve wondered if that discomfort is a hint I’m fighting a losing fight against my genetics. But I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. After all, I feel very comfortable with my righty backhand (the flick is obviously closer to the throwing motion of ball sports like baseball and football than the backhand is, so maybe neither hand had a natural “advantage” for backands).

My comfort with backhands makes me think it’s more about the flick in particular than about left hand vs. right hand.

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I can throw with both hands

Here's another angle on my ambidexterity: while there are surely thousands of people in the world who can throw a righty flick better than I can, I'm willing to wager there are extremely few people who can throw a righty flick better than I can, and can also throw a lefty scoober and lefty hammer better than I can. I'm not an elite flick-thrower, but I’m elite at my own unique skillset.

To throw wobble-free throws with either hand required me to do lots of experimenting—I had to deeply understand what the disc wanted to do as it travelled out of my hand. I think the time I spent learning those skills gave me an atypical perspective on what it takes to throw well.

My right-handed throws lag behind because I don’t get as many reps—I’m using a lefty scoober where other people are using a righty hammer. But my understanding of the mechanics of those throws benefitted from learning to throw with both hands.

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I haven't been playing ultimate that long

As I write this, I've been playing frisbee for less than seven years. Other top frisbee players my age had already been playing for seven years (if not much more!) by the time I started playing.

First, that means I've just had less time to get good. Perhaps by the time I've been playing frisbee as long as Rowan has, my flicks will be as good as his.

And second: I think my late start arguably helped me understand throwing better. I imagine some people who begin playing in college (or even in high school) spend a few years playing a lot and get pretty good without ever needing to think deeply about the theory behind what they're doing.

But because I started as an adult, and I knew how far behind I was, I already had a 'coach mindset' when I first became a player. I was always asking myself how I could improve and what I might be doing wrong. I also came in with a fresh mindset, unencumbered by the ‘conventional wisdom’ that’s sometimes right and sometimes wrong.

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I changed my form within the past year

I made a significant change to my form last fall (thanks to Mel for the suggestion). I went through a few weeks of very awkward throws before my flicks did anything other than curl directly into the ground. It's been 10-ish months now, and comfort-wise, I'm roughly back to the point I was at before I made the change (but with a quicker, more efficient form).

But making that change has definitely set my accuracy back—temporarily. Hopefully, two years from now, I'll be ~3 years from my last form change, and my throws will have reached the level of comfort and accuracy I feel like they could be at.

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This actually wasn't even the first time I needed to re-learn to throw flicks. After two years of playing frisbee casually, I broke a bone in my right hand pinky finger, right around the time I decided to start taking frisbee seriously. The doctor told me the bone was healed after 8 weeks, but the soreness and swelling remained well past that, taking a few more months to full subside.

During those months, I could throw righty backhands more-or-less fine, but, for whatever reason, throwing flicks hurt a bit. I decided to take it slow and work on my lefty and righty backhands instead of pushing through the pain to start throwing flicks again. I went about five months without really throwing any flicks. When I tried throwing flicks again...they were so bad. My body had forgotten how to throw forehands. I had to start over from scratch.

I'm not sure exactly why it happened—I guess after only a year of so of ultimate, the throwing motion wasn't stored deeply enough in my 'muscle memory'. It took a fair amount of re-learning just to have a mediocre flick again. (Maybe someday I'll break a bone in my left hand and get good at throwing righty...)

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I started writing this article 3+ months ago. In the time since then, my flicks have noticeably improved. They’re still not amazing but they definitely continue trending upwards. That gives me a bit more confidence that I’ll continue improving as more time passes and my comfort with my new form continues increasing.

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I worry a bit that I tinker with my form too much, and that constantly changing things is hurting me (I never get deeply comfortable with my current throwing motion) more than it’s helping me (as the continued tweaks—hopefully—optimize my form). I’ve made an effort lately to resist the temptation to change things and just continue getting more and more comfortable with my current throwing motion, even if it’s not quite picture perfect. (But again, if you’re looking for advice, remember that choosing not to further change things came after all the changing an experimenting that brought me to this point.)

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Give-and-gos are easier backhand

(Potentially the most important reason my flicks are lagging.)

As many people like Felix and Rowan have pointed out, it's hard to do a flick give-and-go. In the lefty backhand give-and-go, the throwing motion brings your left hand up and right leg forward—exactly what you do when starting a sprint. A righty flick is a less efficient motion to transition into a sprint.

And I agree with Felix that give-and-gos are one of the best moves in ultimate. So, of course I'm looking to give-and-go all the time. And it makes sense to make that throw a lefty backhand—especially since I'm ambidextrous.

It turns out you hardly ever need to throw flicks if you can throw a snappy lefty backhand 20+ yards without a wind-up. When I'm trying to shred a defense, I'm rarely throwing flicks. It's backhands to both sides, directly into a sprint. Losing out on those in-game flick reps has made it just a bit harder to get my righty forehand up to the level it "should" be at.

Other people have trouble learning lefty backhands because they're so used to throwing flicks; I have trouble getting enough flick reps because my lefty backhand is so good. I think to really get good at flicks, I’d have to completely swear off left-handed throws for an extended period of time.

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I'm a professional—at mechanics

One last point about why my advice is (hopefully) trustworthy.

I'm not a professional as a frisbee player, but I do have a degree in mechanical engineering. Mechanical engineering is about as close as you can get to biomechanics without actually studying biomechanics. I'm not an expert frisbee thrower compared to the best in the world but I am an expert in understanding how things (e.g. hands and discs) fit together, rotate, and respond to the forces applied to them.

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Final thoughts

I'm not a perfect frisbee player. It seems we all have that throw we struggle the most with, and mine is the flick.

There are at least a couple readers of this blog who play ultimate with me in real life. They've seen my throws and they still think my thoughts on throwing mechanics are worth reading and discussing. I hope y'all will continue to feel the same way they do.

What throw do you struggle with the most? Do you think you’ll ever get over the hump? Or if you already got over that hump, how did you do it?